Curse

toastgodsupreme · Jul 13, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

THIS THREAD IS FOR IMPROVEMENTS FOR HENCHMEN. AND THINGS YOU'VE FOUND THEM TO BE LACKING IN. THAT IS ALL. OTHER OFF TOPIC DISCUSSIONS NEED TO GO ELSEWHERE.
We do not care how much you think "Alesia sucks!" or how "people who use henchies are dumb". This is here to discuss legitimate ways of improving them. I've tried to be as clear as possible on my reasonings for why I'm asking for such changes. I ask you to do the same.

I want to start by saying I've run many, many, many missions with the henchmen. I can't imagine how much more daunting this game would be without them.

There are some improvements that can be made.

Caster general:
Weaponry. All casters are carrying staves. I HOPE HOPE HOPE that after the crystal desert, these staves AT LEAST possess the following attributes:
+10 energy
Max Damage
20/20 bonus for whatever major skill the NPC specializes in.
We can't check this obviously because they refuse to show us in a trade window, but I pray that they are at least running collector's gear.

Alesia:
1. She has a tendency to sometimes NOT heal me. I can hang around at half health for a good portion of the battle while not being healed. This doesn't always happen, but it happens frequently enough that I've noticed. This is NOT an energy issue as Claude is always there casting Blood Ritual (something else we'll talk about).

2. Can we have her NOT attack? PLEASE! I don't care if she's using a max damage wand with 50% armor penetration. She does NOT need to be attacking. Period. She takes enough agro as is. I'm BEGGING you anet, please stop her from attacking. We have other team members who are here for just that purpose. She just needs to hang out and heal.

3. The crazy lady won't let me cast Blood Ritual on her sometimes. She will literally RUN AWAY from me as I'm trying to get close. I know that during battle some special code kicks in telling her to keep distance but I need to touch her to get this skill off.

4. Why doesn't she have heal area? Would be nice ya know? Vigorous Spirit? You know, give her a few more options.

Claude:
1. Lack of skills in my opinion. I don't see him using much aside from Deathly Swarm and Blood Ritual, maybe I'm just not being attentive enough.
How about shadow of fear, faintheartedness, enfeeble, etc? Like I said, maybe I just don't pay enough attention to the guy. I thank you for not giving him any corpse exploiting skills. It means I can bring my death necro along with him and we get along fine.

2. His use of Blood Ritual. Please code it so he does NOT use it on the two warrior henchies. He's kind of squishy and him getting up near the agro is bad. Those warriors will do just fine without Blood Ritual on them. Now I'm referring to the NPC warriors only. If it's an actual player, no matter what the class he should be allowed to cast blood ritual on them.

Stefan:
1. Really the only problem I have with him is that he doesn't use sever artery as much as I'd like him to. The code should be (in dumb terms) "if opponent does not have bleeding and is fleshy then use sever artery".

2. Skills. Would like to see him given Distracting Blow (and for him to use it properly of course). Obviously he's tactics based (I HOPE you made him tactics based because he's using the signet) so how about Watch Yourself! too?

Dunham:
I guess my thing here is... what is he bringing to the team? I can't complain about anything specific since I rarely take him along. My reason for that is that I don't know what he's going to be doing. Is doing interupts? Empathy? Backfire? What has ANet built him for? I don't know, I can't ask him.

I have mesmer friends that I enjoy partying with, and I know how to play with them because they tell me what build they're running. I guess my thing is... what is he bringing to the table? This may be many people's reasons for not only taking the henchie, but why mesmers created by people have a hard time getting parties (what I'm getting at is if people take the henchie version along and are impressed, they'll be more inclined to seek out a human version which is possibly even better).

Edit: These are the things I was able to think up off the top of my head here. I'm sure I missed many possible improvements. I don't expect them to be perfect, but there's plenty of room for improvement still.

CaptainGuru · Jul 13, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

To improve henchmen, ANet needs to...

1) Allow henchmen to adapt to your levels. If you are level 12, they'll adapt to your level you are rather than be at a useless default level.

2) Their armor should and weapons be selectable by the player enlisting them.

3) Be able to customize their classes and skills to your liking based on their levels.

Aniewiel · Jul 13, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

To improve henchmen, ANet needs to:

-Give them basic AI commands such as:
*Attack nearest
*Stand your ground
*Defense
*Free roam
*Regroup
*Retreat

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 13, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Alesia:
1. She has a tendency to sometimes NOT heal me. I can hang around at half health for a good portion of the battle while not being healed. This doesn't always happen, but it happens frequently enough that I've noticed.

Perhaps ANet wanted her to simulate real players? Unless you've been under a rock lately, most monks will not heal you every time you get a booboo either!

I don't believe the NPCs were designed to "replace" actual players, but rather act as an "enhancement" for when you cannot find that needed person, or the overall quality of the local talent pool is lacking.

Yes, I have many of the same issues you discuss, but overall I think the NPCs are just fine as is. If the AI was tweaked and made super-efficient - which is what you are clamoring for - who would need to play with anyone else?

Then the game becomes "Morrowind" or any other first person shooter.
Hardly a goal for a title called GUILD Wars...

My 2 cp

Talesin

Adraeus · Jul 13, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Solution: RTS-style AI (a la Baldur's Gate/Fallout/Icewind Dale), and customizable Henchmen (a la Diablo II) that gain experience and attribute points, which can be distributed automatically or manually by the player. The level of the Henchmen that you recruit would be determined by the player. So if you didn't level your Level 3 Ascalon Henchmen, you wouldn't have Level 20 Henchmen by the "end" of the game.

theclam · Jul 13, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adraeus

Solution: RTS-style AI (a la Baldur's Gate/Fallout/Icewind Dale), and customizable Henchmen (a la Diablo II) that gain experience and attribute points, which can be distributed automatically or manually by the player. The level of the Henchmen that you recruit would be determined by the player. So if you didn't level your Level 3 Ascalon Henchmen, you wouldn't have Level 20 Henchmen by the "end" of the game.

Henchmen are supposed to be used when you can't, or don't want to, find a human player. People shouldn't be punished for going without henchies. You shouldn't have to have used them for the whole game for them to be good. I think that they should be at a level equal to the average level of the zone they're next to (max 20), which is close to what they have now. Some customization regarding skillsets might be interesting.

I have two problems with henchmen. The first is that Alesia tends to run up to the tanks (maybe she's using Healing Touch). The second is that they tend to engage when I don't want them to, and not engage when I want them to. On mission such as Elona's Reach, I find it hard to play with henchmen, since they won't stay back while I pull.

toastgodsupreme · Jul 13, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Perhaps ANet wanted her to simulate real players? Unless you've been under a rock lately, most monks will not heal you every time you get a booboo either!

Half health. HALF HEALTH. And i'll be the only one on the team that low. Everyone else will be around 80-90% and I still don't get a heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I don't believe the NPCs were designed to "replace" actual players, but rather act as an "enhancement" for when you cannot find that needed person, or the overall quality of the local talent pool is lacking.

Let's see, if I can not FIND a needed person, I must be looking to REPLACE (or substute) them with a henchman. Right? I think that's how it works. Just because you want to use a different word, doesn't mean it's right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Yes, I have many of the same issues you discuss, but overall I think the NPCs are just fine as is. If the AI was tweaked and made super-efficient - which is what you are clamoring for - who would need to play with anyone else?

Many people have played the game with henchmen only. Now they are a small group. When I do have henchmen in a party FOR WHATEVER REASON, I would prefer them to do their job WELL.

You also claim that if the henchies become too good, who would want to play with anyone else? Well, maybe it would make those shitty monks to aspire to be not so shitty. Maybe it would make people of ALL classes to become better players. It would also give the person who wanted to run a hard mission an option outside of a PUG if Henchies were more reliable.

I'm not asking to make them supermen. I'm asking to bring them a little closer on par with what one expects from a human player.

And if we follow your question "Perhaps ANet wanted her to simulate real players?" then that means that the fighter henchies WOULD be throwing sever artery on a non-bleeding fleshy foe at any given chance. It would mean that they would all be running with max damage weapons and shields and max stat foci and such.

CaptainGuru · Jul 14, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Yes, I have many of the same issues you discuss, but overall I think the NPCs are just fine as is. If the AI was tweaked and made super-efficient - which is what you are clamoring for - who would need to play with anyone else?

I couldn't disagree more...

Again, it depends on the class how well henchmen function. As monk, I have good time working with henchmen since all I have to do is heal and support where as with warrior I have hard time because I can't heal Alesia and fight at the same time. Looking at your player icon, my guess is that you play elementalist who stays in the back? I would find fights easy to do too if I stay in the back spike damaging everyone as a pose to fight upclose with a warrior.